Curse

Shayne Hawke · Apr 14, 2008, 11:14 AM // 11:14

People who use PvE skills and Consumables would no longer get any real worthwhile rewards...

So then what would be the point of using them?

Not only that, but you're suggesting that only the person who activates a party-wide consumable would be at fault. I understand why that works for anti-griefing purposes, but it's very unfair at the same time. One person shouldn't have to take the hit for the entire team.

/notsigned

capblye · Apr 14, 2008, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Another attempt to "fix" the game ...
The argument against is, it's YOUR opinion the game is "broken", so then of course the "fix" makes sense.
I dont see the game as broken, so why fix it?

Your opinion is that the game should promote a challenge by forcing the players into creating builds.
My opinion is that pvxwiki would be populated with builds to circumvent what you propose in a very short time, so there is no difference.

Your opinion is one player should be rewarded better than another for not using something the game developers clearly saw fit to put in the game.
My opinion is if one player chooses not to use something readily available in game, they are foolish not to, but anyway who cares?

The basis of all of the Ursan and other "broken" skills argument is that there is some unspoken higher form of game play and ethic that needs to be adhered to.
That is utter nonsense, simply because it is a game. If you live your life with that same "higher" ethic, great, awesome for you. You chose to live that way, so it effects your life
Do you walk around imposing that ethic on strangers? Do you insist that your neighbors live by the same ethic and carry out their lives as you do because you think its right? Do you act a certain way in life in expectation of a reward?
No ... well, i hope not ... so why insist it be imposed in a game?
That you acted a specific way and completed a task as you saw was the correct way, whether in life or in a game, should be enough of a reward.
So why impose it on others?

serod · Apr 14, 2008, 11:23 AM // 11:23

So, if I'm not a warrior, elementalist or a monk, how the hell am I going to get any statue at all?

/not signed, stop trying to make people play the way you want.

Shanaeri Rynale · Apr 14, 2008, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Nothing to do what what I personally think about Ursan etc.

Common sense dictates that in game with 11 professions, thousands of skills to have but 2 (Ursan and monk) that eradicates every other profession and every build just has to be bad for it.

I play a mesmer, a lot. It has'nt stopped me getting done what I wanted to do. It takes extra effort for sure, but it is doable. Neither has it stopped assasins, rits, Paragons etc.

Anyway, I'd still suggest hardmode be changed to exclude Pve Skills and cons use for the increased challenge and options it gives.

payne · Apr 14, 2008, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by It's A Me

I dont like the idea of the person that uses the cons or a pve skill decreases the drops of the end chest, seems a little too harsh for something that isnt a cheat in the first place. - but it buffs the team ridiculously - its therefore a cheat!

Itll havr to affect something but im not sure what. Maybe increase the rewards for the people who actually run proper team builds? Like old school style.

just learn to play better and there is never a need for cons / PvE only skills !!!

only thing I am against is SS rez signet - its a fair rez and shouldnt be counted towards it IMO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

Anyway, I'd still suggest hardmode be changed to exclude Pve Skills and cons use for the increased challenge and options it gives.

firstly see above about rez sig - but yay good idea!!! Hm isnt challenging anyway - but why make it even easier with cons and rubbish alike! ursan *cough cough*

Quote:

Originally Posted by serod

So, if I'm not a warrior, elementalist or a monk, how the hell am I going to get any statue at all?

/not signed, stop trying to make people play the way you want.

at Serod - heard of a non-nooby Guild? that does runs without ursan / trinity teams?
I get teams as a ranger or mesmer when I play ^^

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off topic - any chance of an opening in DVDF??? - can post "crudentials"!

Shanaeri Rynale · Apr 14, 2008, 12:02 PM // 12:02

I dunno, those sunspear res teams, just destroys Mallyx :O. just wondering if it would be possible to do a a mission or vanquish just using SS res.

As for the OT, PM on me guru and we'll see.

capblye · Apr 14, 2008, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Truth be told ... Most of the 11 classes and thousands of skills were damaged at inception. Cookie cutter builds quickly weeded out the useless skills and the creation of pvxwiki further compounded the disuse of thousands of skills for ones with only favorable attributes.

You feel HM should be buffed ... others would say HM is hard enough as it is.
Should the game developers now begin catering to a small sect of players that feel the game isnt challenging enough?
Most casual players feel the game is more than challenging, so should they be penalized and not receive rewards because they dont want to invest entire days of their life in crafting "old school" builds?

I could follow the same path as easily and say that players who use quality time tested builds like Imbagon, 55 and 600 monks and 3 hero Necro teams (that list can go on and on) should be rewarded better for having the ability to see when something works well, and the sense to use it.

A change such as you propose would then open the doors to many other similar demands ... such as;
The game now detects when you have a Guildwiki window open, and will be counted as cheating for reading quest or mission descriptions while in game.

It sounds silly, but really its along the same lines as what your proposing, and would follow the strict "old school" edict, so why not?

As i said before, if a player wishes to play the game following some edict they feel makes them leet ... awesome for them.
This edict shouldnt be imposed on the community as a whole.

payne · Apr 14, 2008, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

I dunno, those sunspear res teams, just destroys Mallyx :O

honestly don't really know much about that one ^^ haven't DoA'd for a while as Guild-less and don't want to ursan / use cons / waste money on cons in the first place to get to him!

so - maybe remove them in HM - but wouldn't mind keeping legal to NM use it on my newb ele atm! better then rez signet! - rebirth work in the same way as SSRS? in terms of transporting allys to your location? or were you commenting on the full HP / mana restore (soz been playing star ocean) :P
HP/energy - for hypocrites :

Quote:

Originally Posted by capblye

Truth be told ... Most of the 11 classes

- 12 classes - Chuck Norris has his own class with 7 heroes 2 elites and lvl22 as max lvl - taken from other threads I read!

Quote:

Originally Posted by capblye

You feel HM should be buffed ... others would say HM is hard enough as it is.
Should the game developers now begin catering to a small sect of players that feel the game isnt challenging enough?

vote for uber mode:: /sign

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off topic - any chance of an opening in DVDF??? - can post "crudentials"! if you actually care at all ^^

Brian Fellow · Apr 14, 2008, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Ah crap I guess Summon Spirit and Vampirism is too uber for HM?

Before the last update my Vampirism 75% of the time just stood there and did nothing.

zwei2stein · Apr 14, 2008, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Shanaeri, there is problem: People who cared already got their shiny statues with Ursan/consumable crap. Your ideas would be just symbolic nerf, not real one.

Fact still remains thou, it messed up PvE real bad. And i think its irreversible.

payne · Apr 14, 2008, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Fellow

Before the last update my Vampirism 75% of the time just stood there and did nothing.

then why use it ? lol

Solas · Apr 14, 2008, 12:38 PM // 12:38

tbh i liekd that it was a step in a new direction but besides pve skills there are only 3 main roles for soem areas, Healer,Tank and Nuke.

Also what would happen if one person used a party wide buff (a la Essance)? would 1 person only get restriced drops or everyone?

Brian Fellow · Apr 14, 2008, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

then why use it ? lol

Well it was always a good way to block a mob for a second and the description seemed to be so uber! deals damage and heals you looked awesome.

Oh yeah Light of Deldimor with 20 sec recharge and mainly used for hidden chests shouldn't be considered "cheating" skill.

cellardweller · Apr 14, 2008, 12:40 PM // 12:40

I like the idea in principle, however as zwei2stein said, the horse has bolted and every existing achievement has been devalued to nothingness. The correct solution at this stage is to add an extra set of achievements on top for those who play the game without relying on the pve crutches much like what was done with the introduction of HM.

payne · Apr 14, 2008, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

I like the idea in principle, however as zwei2stein said, the horse has bolted and every existing achievement has been devalued to nothingness. The correct solution at this stage is to add an extra set of achievements on top for those who play the game without relying on the pve crutches much like what was done with the introduction of HM.

another valid reason to introduce uber mode :P or make a new type of monster that can strip the effects of cons / ursan from your character :P yippee problem solved

Shanaeri Rynale · Apr 14, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Zwel.

It might help going forward tho. Like people got mega rich from pre prot bond nerf and trader resets. It got fixed and the game adjusted in time.

My heart says you are right, my head wants to see something done to bring things under control

Some skills would obviously be excluded (SS res etc) but I think we all know the difference between SS Res and TNTF for example

Mischivous mode on
They could always delete everyones elite mission statues, put this in and make em do it again

*hides*
Mischivous mode off

MithranArkanere · Apr 14, 2008, 12:49 PM // 12:49

So... they add PvE skills and consumables so people that cannot get the statue gets it, and you suggest the opposite...

So, why would people use them, then? It would be the same as removing them.

So, this is not the solution.

payne · Apr 14, 2008, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

So... they add PvE skills and consumables so people that cannot get the statue gets it, and you suggest the opposite... - cons were added to help the idiots complete easy missions with help

So, why would people use them, then? It would be the same as removing them.

So, this is not the solution.

good idea really wipe all statues - and only allow them to be gotten by not using PvE/cons - only two drawbacks I can see here -

1: people who didn't use the above will have to redo - FoW with just 3 heroes takes alot of time - I know
2: service thread is full of runners - I know very well from being friends with a few they don't use PvE/cons () small flaw there - and can't introduce you must do a certain amount of moving or damage or something as this would mess up the monks - who would have to atk and heal to get a statue with the team dying in the so-called "elite" areas
<<<just throwing the ideas out there!

Shanaeri Rynale · Apr 14, 2008, 01:04 PM // 13:04

The reality is, is that Anet screwed up the design of DoA so that only a few professions could ever beat it. Instead of changing it to be more like the UW/FoW which are a reasonable challenge, but can be done by everyone they put a few skills in the game which negate the needs for different professions at all. People then took the tools Anet put in to bandaid over their messed up design and used them elsewhere, which is where we are today..

I fully acknowledge that people love rampaging everywhere and any nerf to skills would ruin their enjoyment of the game. I am also aware that people without Gwen, or the time to grind out a title are put at a significant disadvantage in terms of finding a team. More than ever I was as a mesmer. Added to this that the areas were balanced and designed for teams with non super power buffs and the issue becomes clear.

By rewarding teams more who play in the areas, as they were designed(Doa needs a redo), while not overly punishing those who still want to whoosh bang seems a good idea IMHO

payne · Apr 14, 2008, 01:10 PM // 13:10

which in some ways comes back to the argument of making PvE only skills only usable in their areas - luxon in luxon areas; kurz in kurz areas; SS / LB in Elona only; ursan in norn areas only! etc.

and yes DoA does need a redo so all professions can play together - like happy tree friends (without the mindless death as it is now!)

game / profession / rank discrimination is still the main problem incorporated by these add-ons / titles / skills / profession all together!

play monk and your always wanted ^^

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off-topic crudentials? want to join ^^